A financial planner who specializes in helping people navigate life transitions such as a long-term illness, loss of a spouse, becoming a caregiver or retirement offers us sage advice.
It doesn’t take long for anyone who is a caregiver or planning on being a caregiver to realize that role will impact their finances. Financial planning as a caregiver is possible and definitely recommended, says Stephanie Vokral of Critical Transitions Wealth Advisors.
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Episode Transcript
Anna: Whether you’re currently a caregiver or looking down the road at the possibility of becoming one, there’s a financial impact. Today on Reverse we’re talking about money. Actually, we’ll talk about how not to watch it go down the drain.
Welcome to the Reverse podcast, where we talk about all things related to caregiving and senior life. I’m your host, Anna Edmunds. Today we’re gonna be talking about money. And whenever anyone mentions financial planning to me, my eyes glaze over and I look for the nearest exit. So to help us along with that, I’ve brought in a good friend and a colleague who can probably talk about this a lot more intelligently than I can.
I’m gonna go ahead and let her introduce herself. Welcome, Stephanie Vokral, to the podcast.
Stephanie: Thank you.
Anna: Stephanie, I’ve known you for a long time. But I still have a hard time explaining to everybody what exactly you do. So, do that for us.
Stephanie: Sure. I am a business owner and I have two businesses, assistings Families In a transition, critical Transitions Wealth Advisors works with families or individuals to help them solve problems while they’re going through a major critical life event like.
Retirement or loss of a spouse or an empty nest or caregivers, you know? Okay. It also works with my other business has the niche of divorce financial planning. So, we work with specifically women going through the transition
Anna: Okay, so here today we’re gonna be talking more about the transitions, the critical wealth transition side of your business.
Stephanie: That’s right.
Okay. So, I just have to be honest, and you already know this about me. I’m allergic to all things, numbers and math. So, and you’re the professor of all those things. So, Sometimes I don’t always understand these kinds of conversations. Mm-hmm. So, I will be representing the lowest common denominator in the audience.
Stephanie: That’s fine.
I will ask questions if I don’t understand ’em. A lot of other people out there don’t. So first of all, let me start by saying, these are conversations most of us don’t like to have period. Right. Planning for the future, talking about money, all of that, you know, even if you do, uh, manage money very well, they’re not fun conversations to have. So, with regard to caregivers, I’m just gonna ask you, as a financial planner, what are some of the financial dangers that you see for caregivers?
Stephanie: My goodness, where do I start? Well, first I will say normally this is a conversation that is about women, not all the time. Most of the time caregivers are, are women.
Anna:Yes.
And so those have their own unique conversations that go along with the caregiving piece. but the biggest losses that I see are. Loss of wages, number one, loss of benefits loss, uh, and that includes social security, uh, loss of the ability to save for their older self. Uh, loss of experience and tenure in their own career.
And so, you know, the losses are extensive. I mean, there are some studies that show that if a woman leaves the workforce for three years, that that can mean well over $300,000 for her in her career. And so, it’s very dangerous for caregivers to not have a plan. I will say that. So, having a plan, whether it’s I’m gonna do this for this amount of time, or making sure that, you know, and we’ll talk about this in a little bit, but making sure that they’ve done research to understand what they’re talking about.
When they’re talking about being a caregiver and the losses that are associated with that, because it’s a very damaging, uh, a lot of times when, when, when people do choose to leave the workforce and be a caregiver. So often people think it is just the loss of wages and they don’t think about their own personal benefits, health insurance— and they may even have a disability coverage — with their employer.
You know, what happens if they then, as the caregiver, get hurt caring for that individual? How are they gonna pay for their own disability? And so really giving thought to leaving their work situation and having a plan in place for that is very critical.
Anna: I don’t know what to say to all that. It’s just very overwhelming.
All of this is to me because as a caregiver, I didn’t have the option of leaving the workforce. I was single. It was just me. But I knew full well that the life expectancy, or I should say the risk of death, for the caregiver is so much higher for the caregiver than the person that you’re caring for because it’s so stressful.
Stephanie: Yes. And that’s probably one thing I failed to mention is the loss of their own health. Yes. It’s a major issue when it comes to being a caregiver.
Anna: Well, I don’t hide the fact that I gained a massive amount of weight as a caregiver. I’ve never had that problem before in my life.
But you suddenly are living the life for two people. Especially if the person you’re caring for has any level of dementia. You’re thinking for that person, you’re making their decisions and everything, and you put your life on hold for that person; especially if it’s your parent.
Which is why we call this Reverse. You become that person’s parent. And so, you put your own decisions about your life on the back burner, making sure that mom is healthy and safe and content. And, gosh, it brings tears to my eyes to even be having to talk about this right now and looking back because it was very hard. I’m left with the scars of it.
So, what are some of the solutions for these kinds of problems that we’re talking about?
Stephanie: I think the biggest one that I see people miss is really doing their homework and their research before they make that decision. I think that is one of the biggest ways that they can avoid the unknown is to really make sure that they have looked at all of the benefits available to them that they’re gonna be losing, and all of the benefits that are available to the person that they will be caring for.
What are their military benefits? What are their group benefits? Should a home study be done to understand if there are certain items that can be added to the home. Should you consider combining your households? Is it easier to have the loved one in the home with you? Is your home easier to modify than their home? I mean, there are so many items to think through. And really getting curious and asking good questions both to yourself and to other family members you asked for the assistance of. I tread lightly here because sometimes you don’t want the assistance of other family members.
But you know, I have three brothers and I’m the only girl. Understanding the personalities of other family members that you invite into that conversation and having good boundaries there, but really understanding what is the plan here and having that laid out before you to make that decision is vital to your long-term health and to finding a, a solution that works for everybody involved.
Anna: I can’t tell you how much this validates everything I’ve been thinking over the last couple years since my mom passed. I can’t stress enough how much we learned in hindsight, my siblings and I on decisions that we made. I, mostly, because I was the caregiver, but I had support. You make these decisions during a crisis or on the spur of the moment.
In our case, because we didn’t know where to go for information, we didn’t have Reverse magazine or the Navigating in Reverse podcast. I didn’t know where to go for help. And just like you said, in hindsight, we should have sold my mother’s house and sold my house once it was determined she was moving to South Carolina and I would be her caregiver, and bought a much bigger house; big enough to bring a caregiver in so I could still work at home and her not interfere with me. I could still leave the home whenever I wanted to run errands or whatever. It would’ve been cheaper. It would’ve been safer. But instead we spent thousands upon thousands, upon thousands of dollars, and me running to where she lived, putting out fires that I couldn’t control. Not that they didn’t take good care of her, but exactly what you’re talking about. All of us could have been happier, but nobody told us what you’re telling us today.
Stephanie: Mmm hmm. And it really helps, I think, talking with other people who have been through this situation, yes. I think what you’re doing on this podcast is great because it does foster so many great conversations and you being able to share your story can help other people, you know.
Anna: Well, let me just say, at the time I didn’t know anybody else that was doing this, nor did I have time to go seek out information. I didn’t know about Leeza’s Care Connection, for example. I didn’t know any of these things and my siblings were, well, the closest one lives outside of Charlotte. The rest of ’em are many hundreds of miles away. My sister is an elder law attorney in Virginia and she helped with a lot of things but the day-to-day stuff, she’s not there for that. And she doesn’t know South Carolina, so she can’t help me weed around and find the support that I needed. Hmm.
So, yes, this is why the podcast and the magazine came about because if I can help one person on their journey through an interview like this, then my job here on Earth is done as far as I’m concerned.
Stephanie: So, one other solution that I will mention is, you know, e even finding solutions, and you said it earlier about are there ways that instead of quitting your job, you could work from home? Mm-hmm. , could you do something remotely? Could you, could your employer work with you? Right. From, from that standpoint, you know, and and then understanding, when you.
I think, I think one of the biggest things that I have learned through helping families is, is there are issues when you do combine households. Yes. And you have to think through that with a good elder law attorney because it can impact some of their benefits, you know? So really understanding that before you, and that’s what I’m talking about when I say to do your research and understand how that’s helpful.
Bringing some caregivers to help you have respite and understanding what are some of those community resources. So, I would say the biggest solution is doing your homework, slowing down, asking good questions and really talking to people and trying to, to understand.
Anna: Yeah, I think the benefits was interesting too. I was not involved in the money side or any of that. I was the hands-on person for my mom and my siblings did everything else. But my dad was a veteran and even though he only did like four years, you know, way back, he had benefits as he was aging, and then my mom continued to receive some of them. Not very much, but every dime helps. At this point. I never would’ve known to go down that rabbit hole. I consider myself a very smart person (except when it comes to numbers). I’m a highly intelligent and an able-to-research kind of person, but it never occurred to me to go down the veteran’s benefits rabbit hole.
Stephanie: And it is a rabbit hole!
Anna: My sister is an elder law attorney and is very sharp. And we’re gonna have the Veteran’s Administration on this podcast one day more than once probably, but I just kind of think there are there other items to consider. I mean, benefits is huge, whether it’s your healthcare benefits or veterans’ benefits, there are different things can people tick off. Like start making a list of things that they should be thinking about when trying to plan for, you know, for their financial future?
Stephanie: Sure. I think one thing that I see that when it comes to planning, is the dynamics as your roles are reversing.
Anna: Yes it is.
Stephanie: And it depends on the generation. Like my parents are much more open to me asking questions and being involved in their finances than their parents were with them. Right.
Anna: My dad always would say, it’s none of your business how much money I make. Even as an adult!
Stephanie: Yeah, I have those clients. I mean the folks that are in their eighties and nineties right now, remember, you know, their parents went through the Great Depression. And so you didn’t talk about anything money related. We still have those folks around.
So, my grandparents didn’t talk about anything. So, with this generation, which is the baby boomers, as they are aging, they’re much more likely to talk about things than their parents were. And so it is engaging them in conversations to start planning and it’s going with them to appointments to their financial advisor, going with them to appointments to their estate planner, and if they don’t have those appointments, then asking for those appointments. You have every right to ask that. You have every right to ask questions about how your parents.
Or, you know, ask questions about fees, right? Ask questions about documents that they have, and as that transition takes place, getting documents in place, like powers of attorney, right? Making sure that you’re able to have that power now and be involved with your parents. Like a power of attorney where something has to happen for you to, like some documents, and I’m certainly not an attorney, you will have to have an event that occurs for you to become the power of attorney.
Anna: Right. Whereas you can actually have a document where you can now be power of attorney with your parent. And that’s what we did.
Stephanie: And it’s so helpful.
Anna: It wasn’t being used. But if my mother was suddenly indisposed, you know, gonna fall down the stairs and become unconscious or whatever, then the power of attorney just kicks in.
Stephanie:Yes. Or it’s there already.
Anna: Correct. And my brothers shared that. I don’t understand a shared power of attorney, but I wasn’t in charge of all that. But yeah, it was good when they needed it, it was there.
Stephanie: Right. So that’s important. And it also gives you access to the money. If you are the one who is the caregiver, many times you are the one who’s paying those bills. You’re setting up those payment systems. You know one of the things that we try to do with families, just practically speaking, is helping them get a payment system set up. You know, is it online bill pay? Is it automatic drafts? And making sure that they’re proficient in ways to pay bills.
Anna: Right. I mean, it’s very important. My brother was the money man. He paid all the bills. I had her credit card and I could go to town buying mom and I whatever we needed for her care, and he trusted me thoroughly. So, anybody who has a sibling or somebody who can do that and take over the finances, that’s a huge weight of the caregiver’s back.
You know what I mean? Bills would come in the mail and I would just scan them over and say, here you go, dude. And he would pay, rarely asking me a question. But also, if you don’t have that, if there’s not somebody in the family that you trust or can help, I know there are financial professionals or paraprofessionals you can hire to do that. And they don’t have control of your money. They’ll simply write the checks. I forget what they’re called. There’s a name for them.
Stephanie: We call it concierge services. And in our our industry, there are people who do that, but there are trustees who do that as well. You can hire CPAs to actually be the trustee and write checks.
Anna: Right. And, and they can’t take your money. They can’t do anything with it. They just move it around for you.
Stephanie: Right. So, I find that to be a service that many times people are not using. I think maybe it’s being more talked about. And certainly in family offices and higher net worth families they have. But you know, most of the people in South Carolina that you’re talking about day to day, they’re not gonna be your higher net worth person.
You know, they’re not gonna, right? They’re working. They need to be practical and you need practical ways to access that. And so working with mom and dad’s professionals and making sure that the documents are in place for you to be able to work with them, practically speaking, is right.
Anna: It’s key. OK, that was interesting. Stephanie.
We’re talking to Stephanie Vokral, a certified financial planner who actually specializes in life transitions and planning for them. We are currently talking about some of the solutions to some of the problems caregivers face when they’re trying or think they need to adjust their financial plan.
Let’s get down to the nitty gritty. How can your company specifically help people? Somebody picks up the phone and says, ah, I need help. What can you do?
Stephanie: Well, I’ll say most of the time when we get that call, it is usually because someone is taking over as a caregiver and it’s not that they didn’t always ask good questions ahead of time or try to get involved. Many times they were not allowed to, and so now it’s at that emergency place where they’re pulling their hair out and they’re trying to figure things out. So, the biggest thing is to have a family meeting. Get paperwork and documents signed so that we can be involved and talk with children or caregivers.
And then, we also have ways that we can understand whether or not there is any kind of elder abuse going on. And this is very important. We have ways to discern that caregivers are legitimate and that they are not taking advantage of anyone.
And that’s normally not the case. But you need professionals who are gonna work with the family. We have a series of family meetings where we ask questions and we understand what is the need, not only the need of the family, but what are the specifics of the assets that are involved?
And I’ll give you a very quick example. There are tools that we can use that will use equity in a client’s home. And so you have to understand before you do that, we ask if this is a homestead that’s been in the family for generations and never gonna be sold? Is the intention is for it to go to the heirs and for it to always remain in the home. Many times you see this with clients who may live on the coast who had a home that’s been on the coast and been in the family for a long time. Or a lot of land and property that go with the home. And so you want to understand that first because if that is the situation, then you really cannot use equity that’s in the home most of the time.
But if the plan is nobody has any attachment to the property and at some point in the future everybody is just like, “Yeah, we don’t care if dad’s house stays in the family or not,” and that house is paid for, maybe that is a source that you, you want to look at. So, it’s really about getting curious and understanding the type of assets that are available to your client and then helping the family to understand and consolidate — making it simple. Whereas a lot of times I find that the baby boomer generation, one of the ways that they thought about diversification or one of the ways that they diversifed was to have a lot of different advisors or accounts in a lot of different places.
Anna: Oh goodness. That sound horrible.
Stephanie: So, the problem is the caregiver and people who are trying to practically pay bills and access their assets don’t know where they are. And rummaging through drawers and finding stock certificates can just be a little bit of a nightmare.
So a lot of times we get involved with making it more practical to actually get to those assets and advising families on which bucket do I take from first, you know? Would it be the retirement bucket? Would it be the checking account? Could it be the investment account? Or maybe they don’t have that and just helping them to get to a good family law attorney to understand how they need to deplete their assets so they qualify for Medicaid.
So there’s a lot, but starting with a good family meeting and getting an understanding about the scope of assets that a client would have, where those assets are. Just getting an assessment of the situation is very important. But many times, you know, taking that first step to have a family meeting can seem a little scary to the parent.
Anna: Well, I said this recently in another interview when that came up, that sometimes those family meetings are like Thanksgiving dinners, right?
You know, it’s just a big brouhaha. (Laughter) Because it’s very emotional. But when you were talking about documents and everything, I remember after my dad passed, my older sister was the one living closest to my mom. And they were rummaging through all the drawers, you know, cuz mom never did anything financial — she was your typical housewife at the time and dad did everything. The things she unearthed. Like my dad was well into his 70s when he died, and my sister found his adoption papers. He came from Europe, during the Holocaust. And then his mother remarried and he wanted to be an American boy. So his stepfather adopted him and this paperwork was just squirreled away somewhere. Who knows what else she unearthed? I know she was pulling her hair out. But, yes, you just never know what you’re gonna dig up with.
So, do you have a good disaster story for us before we go?
Stephanie: (Laughter) Well, I think probably one of the worst situations I’ve ever seen is a son who came in with his dad and literally had an old orange suitcase and it was full of papers.
Anna: Oh no.
Stephanie: And the son was just like, I just don’t even know where to start. And I was helping him because dad was already having dementia. Helping him understand what his dad actually had and going through all of that. And you know, this suitcase was orange and hard just full of stock certificates, and there were life insurance policies.
Many times you have to pay a professional like myself who knows what they’re doing to help you understand what do mom and dad have, because maybe they can’t even articulate it right to you at that time. And so, you know, it takes time and it’s a web that you have to unwind.
I would say that we have a proven process, that we work families through as far as helping them to navigate that.
Anna: Better you than me. I just, there’s no way I wanna get involved in any of that stuff!
Stephanie: You have to be very patient and, you know, as the caregiver when you’re asking them a lot of questions, many times they don’t know the answer to it.
And so, it is just sometimes it can be like a mystery. Google is your friend. You spend a lot of time Googling some things and even looking in state records and trying to find tax map numbers. I mean, we do a lot of interesting stuff in our office for sure to solve the problems.
Anna: Like little detectives.
Stephanie: Sometimes we have to be.
Anna: I bet that part’s interesting. Like forensic accounting. I’m not obviously into accounting. But if I was, I would be a forensic accountant cuz I like a good cops and robbers story.
Stephanie: Well, I mean, you have to. And we refer because we have to. I’m not an attorney, right? I can’t advise on legal matters. And so it’s very important to have professionals that we can bring into those situations. Right? And being able to refer them maybe to a trust department for a solution. You have to understand long-term care and understand how it works.
For example, if a client has a long-term care policy, understanding what it means and can they qualify now, would they qualify? I can’t determine that many times, but we can go ahead and recommend that the family get an assessment done by the insurance company to see if they would qualify at that time.
Sometimes it’s helping the caregiver think through what is a good next step in getting a plan in place.
Anna: Well, I would like to end this on the note that I have had conversations, professional conversations, with you about my own matters that I’m trying to put in order and I walk into the office all jittery; I don’t wanna discuss it. But I always leave feeling much more relaxed. And I don’t know if that’s because I know you, or that just having someone there who can explain it and not make you feel ashamed of the mess that you’ve brought to the table or how dumb you are. To my audience out there I say don’t let that stuff hold you back, whether you call Stephanie or anybody else.
Stephanie: Correct. It helps to have the information. Most families, especially if they don’t like finances and don’t feel proficient at it (and most people don’t) are going to put it on the back burner or in the kitchen drawer. Or wherever.
And then when you unearth it, it’s a disaster. It’s a mountain. I mean a lot of times that’s what we specialize in. But if we cannot help you, our goal is to help you find somebody who can. And so many times we have to refer people out, and that’s okay too. That doesn’t mean that there was something wrong with you. It just means that we want make sure your questions get answered by the right person. And so many times we will bring other folks into the situation.
Anna: That’s the sign of a good service provider: When they say, “We are not the best ones to, to help you. Let me point you in this direction, let me bring a third voice in for us.”
Stephanie: Right. But we will never leave a client where they don’t know who to call next. And we want to leave them better than we found them.
Anna: Excellent. Go ahead and tell listeners how can they find you. What’s the best way to contact you if they want to?
Stephanie: I would say the best thing is visit our website: https://www.aswetransition.com . Or call the office at (803) 749-7012 and we will have a conversation.
Anna: Okay, well that wasn’t as horrible as I thought it was gonna be. From my side, I understood everything you were talking about, so thank you very much.
Stephanie: You’re welcome.
Anna: And my guess is we’ll have you back in the future as we talk about specifics. Because people will be wanting to know very specific kinds of things.
Stephanie: Yeah, please do. I’m always happy to come back and answer any questions. If this sparks an interest, please have me
Anna: Maybe one time we can do it with a glass of wine, cuz that always makes it more fun.
Stephanie: Oh, that would be very interesting.
Anna: Well, thanks again, Stephanie Vokral from Critical Transitions Wealth Advisors.
Stephanie: Thank you.
Anna: The reverse podcast is written and produced by the F Suite L L C, all rights reserved. Our audio engineer is Andrew Haworth. Thank you for listening.
